battery safety and concerns

[Antoniojfa]

Where to locate the battery cabinet. I am worried about fire, and leaking acid. ALso about fumes. How about temperture? Do they need to be in a temp controlled enviroment? How hot or cold is too hot or cold? What about moisture.

[admin]

>> I am about ready to place an order. I've read most of the forum entries and
>> think I am getting a handle on the deal. At this point, my questions
>> surround the roof mount with regard to vibration, (roof damage) noise, and
>> concerns about the batteries. I understand they should be in a temperature
>> controlled area but I am worried about leakage, gas, and fire if I have them
>> inside the house. (no garage) If I have them outside, I'm worried about the
>> cold in the winter. (Although I don't worry to much about my golf cart or
>> car battery in the winter.)

Do you worry about a battery back-up on your computer? That is like our system in micro size without wind or solar.  We vent the gas, with convection design and a powered fan for good measure. Nothing scary to be concerned with really, just match your concern with the design and care of the system.  We could design an outdoor cabinet if it's that concerning. I can counter the issues of doing it outdoors with managing heat, cold, and moisture in the cabinet. It's a solution that would help others if we can make it work well.

Read Also: Battery Questions & Maintenance
--
turbineZ
--
turbine@windenergy7.com
.

[Antoniojfa]

As we discussed, I don't want the gas vented into my house. Hope we can come up with a solution. I do not have a garage or a basement.

[admin]

Hello Morgan,

The vent from a battery cabinet goes from the cabinet or closet to the OUTSIDE. We use a 4" dryer style vent that goes to the OUTSIDE. It would make no sense to vent gas or exhaust into the house, that's not what we are venting for. The vent and duct is continually moving by convection, because heat rises, the vent always in the top of the cabinet. Then we take a powered fan, powered by the battery bank. That fan runs for 1 minute, once an hour evacuating all air from the cabinet and pulling fresh air into it. So, the design is such that it's always a negative air flow into the cabinet to the outside of the home.

Think of how many million homes in US have a golf cart in the garage charging batteries with no special venting or anything. People working at golf courses where 50 carts are charging indoors and no-one is worrying about it. This is same thing, a bettery bank, charging. Except we do it with wind/solar and we use the batteries to power a GREEN CIRCUIT.

Now the example of a battery backup for a computer is slightly different. In that example, there's an inverter, changing battery power to 120v for computer. There's a charger built in that can keep the battery charged. There's a 12 or 24v battery inside taking charge, storing, providing power source. There's only a few differences in this and a renewable energy system.

(1) the batteries are sealed, thus do not gas, but are small.
(2) the charging is all from grid with no windmill or solar source
(3) the scale of the system and specific of capacity and so forth are smaller, a little different.

So, Our inverters and technology are more advanced, more heavy duty, and designed for higher power. Our inverters have all kinds of fail safe features for over charge, under charge, spikes, peaks, etc. But the basic principles of charging and storing with batteries, inverting power to 120v, providing a back-up power source in an outage, yada yada. In my opinion this system is more safe than a normal battery backup. But gas we want vented outside. Or, we can use the more expensive sealed batteries if you like. I choose to vent mine.

So, I really think it's fine myself. But you have been preoccupied by this issue and I don't think we should ignore your comfort level. Fact is, if you feel uncomfortable about this battery bank, it will take all the fun out of having a system. So, let's do what FEELS RIGHT TO YOU rather than do what I am comfortable with. Maybe in your next system you will be more comfortable like me. Working around the stuff will definitely become comfortable.

Let's do the outdoor cabinet. We will make a similar cabinet, very well insulated, weatherproof. We will design counter measures to minimize condensation moisture and temperature. It will work fine and you will be more comfortable AND you will not be using up any space from the house. I really think we should go this route and it will be of benefit to all the other WE7 users to know this is an option we have worked out.

We can make this a group project and all the users can share ideas on how we can achieve this. Between all the people reading here and other owners of the systems we will come up with a great solution to this. Hell, I can use more space myself and an outdoor cabinet is a worthwhile solution to work towards. This will become yet another innovation we have to offer over other competing systems. What do you think?
--
turbineZ
--
turbine@windenergy7.com
.

[Antoniojfa]

I'm all for it! Thanks!. It's my understanding the inverter produces heat. Would it produce enough heat in the winter to mitigate some of the low temp issue in an insulated cabinet? If the cabinet is to well insulated I imagine gas build up would not be a good thing? It must always be vented but I am imaginieng opening vents up on the summer and closing them in the winter. We can get fancy & have vents and fans that open and close dependent on the internal temp. Maybe place the unverter(s) in the lower portion of the cabinet so the heat would rise away from the electronics to the upper portion where the batteries could be. Vents in the top. I might be worried about a top heavy cabinet however. Just some thoughts.
Morgan

[admin]

Yes, that's a great idea. The controlls ontop is basically about user access and ease of use. You will find that it's pretty fun watching the meters and stuff especially for awhile. It's like a gardening hobby where you watch the plants grow.

No matter what the environment, in home, garage, basement, outside, the temperature in the cabinet will be warmer than outside the cabinet. So, as long as you have the small vent holes at bottom, even though the heat is in the top it will draw that air flow from bottom to top. The batteries will make some slight heat.

The charge controllers have a heating element. This element is used to discharge heat when batteries are overcharging, it will use the heating element rather than continue charging a full system. We may also think of design the cabinet with a small shelf at bottom making a space for a heating element, or just the whole controllers. Maybe make a jig to put the controllers close to front where although they are low in the cabinet close to bottom, they will be visible and accessible.

The reinforcement to the cabinet can make for strength and insulation at same time. So, maybe take a metal cabinet like normal. Put a small slab to sit on stable. encase in about 1" of sheet styrofoam, then a nice 3/4" plywood case, or shell if you will. Do something smart with all the seams and such. Paint the inside with epoxy seal. Rig all shelving at an slight angle for any water to run off and down. Put all components on a wire grille or something so nothing will really sit in any water. Or, use wire shelving inside the cabinet, it has a plastic coating and can be put in pretty sold? Put a slanted top over it to keep any water off the top, paint it to match the home siding and so forth.
--
turbineZ
--
turbine@windenergy7.com
.

[Nutch/CVS [Bot]]

Sam, how did you set the 1 min per hour fan. My box is fairly tight should I make 2 one inch holes to breathe fresh air into the box wile being vinted by the fan.

Rex Indiana