Green circuit questions

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WeThePeople
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Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:18 pm
Location: NE Texas

Green circuit questions

Postby WeThePeople » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:16 am

1) What does it take to create a "green circuit." I assume we're not talking about changing what circuit particular outlets and appliances are currently on, but rather removing an entire chosen circuit from the grid (inside the circuit breaker box) and connecting it to a new input that is supplied from the battery cabinet. Is that right?

2) If the demand on the green circuit exceeds the supply being generated by the wind/solar/batteries, does the "grid-supplemented inverter/charger" take over by supplying energy from the grid, thereby preventing the green circuit from supplying insufficient power to appliances?
If that's true, then why would we have to isolate any circuits at all, as it seems the wind/solar/batteries would just supply energy as long as it was available, and the grid would take over after that.

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Rooftop Wind Turbine
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RE: Green Circuit Questions

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:14 pm

(1) What does it take to create a "green circuit."

There are actually many ways to use the power and create the GREEN CIRCUIT. They are as varied as the users situations and budgets.

On the rough side is a hunting cabin with soft wiring mainly using heavy extension cords and maybe totally Off-Grid.

On the most elegant side is an installation where the new circuit is laid independantly, leaving all prior outlets operable and redundant. A new 30A breaker goes from panel to the GREEN CIRCUIT to provide it's 120v grid power when needed. From there all wiring is completely a stand alone GREEN CIRCUIT that is used for emergency backed up loads.

Most important is to really understand the amount of power you are making and pair it up appropriately with the most important loads that fit within that capability. "Watt Watching"


(2) If the demand on the green circuit exceeds the supply being generated by the wind/solar/batteries, does the "grid-supplemented inverter/charger" take over by supplying energy from the grid.

The Grid Supplemented power has to run ONLY when Green Power is insufficient. Example, a day with no wind at all. The power is supplied in order of wind, solar, battery, grid. The Grid is completely disconnected unless the batteries get low and the grid power is needed. in Off-Grid, The connection is completely one-way and no power goes back up to main panel.

The amount of loads on that circuit is very important, you want to use it all, but rarely use the grid supplement for those loads. Thus, having some redundant outlets unchanged gives you an ability to move appliances and lighting on and off that GREEN CIRCUIT as you see fit to get the loads just right for the amount of generation capacity.

Our Grid-Tie Systems are very similar except there is usually more generation capacity, and the power goes (TO and FROM) the main panel interacting with the grid constantly. But all out=r GREEN CIRCUITS have 4 sources of power, wind, solar, battery, and grid. All our systems are able to run off grid and are designed for emergency power back-up in a crisis.
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turbineZ
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WeThePeople
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:18 pm
Location: NE Texas

green circuits

Postby WeThePeople » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:15 pm

So if I generate enough by wind, the circuit is intirely powered by wind. If it falls short, solar ADDS TO wind. If those fall short, battery power ADDS TO wind and solar. And if that's not enough, the grid ADDS TO wind, solar and battery power. Is that right?

If so, then what happens if I move ALL circuits to my new grid-supplemented system? Wouldn't I always max out my wind/solar/battery system and get the most use from it? Then as I add wind and solar capacity, I'd just reduce how much is coming from the grid.

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RE: Green Circuit Questions

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:43 pm

Well, close. Now this with OUR SYSTEMS ONLY, this is not true of most energy systems. Most are not capable of all this stuff we can do with our system. The wind solar is parallel except you have about 3x more wind power than solar, but their priority is basically the same.

On a sunny windy day, you will have heavy wind and solar concurrently charging and be getting full power.

If it's at night your wind will run with no solar, if there's wind.

On a sunny day with no wind, solar runs fine.

If there's no wind and solar, like a night with no wind. Your battery will carry the loads until it (battery bank) gets to a weak level.

If your battery level gets low, no matter what else is happening, At THAT point, the grid will take over and run the circuit while charging the batteries for a few hours, then it will cut off grid power and let the system stand on its own again.

In our off grid, it's grid supplemented, the grid either runs the circuit while charging batteries, or grid power is idle. This is NOT TWO WAY, that would be a full Grid Tie. In an off-grid No power will go upstream to the grid or main panel, ever. But with our off-grid we can use the grid in times when it's needed to run the circuit and or charge the batteries. This is an innovation of our systems that no-one else has working this way.


>> then what happens if I move ALL circuits to my new grid-supplemented system?

Then, your system is way overloaded causing it to cycle on and off the grid while it quickly drains your batteries and then cycles back to grid. You may actually wind up using more energy than without the system at all. Even in a whole house, grid-tied system that's not the way you set it up. Not me anyway. I'll post some new diagrams that I am working on that put this all pretty clear. Will be a few days, making one for both on and off-grid.

The whole idea is a carefully tailored load(s) that runs all your GREEN POWER completely and rarely cuts into grid at all. That is optimal. Then, a battery bank that is right sized to carry the peaks and valleys of the charging capacity. So, larger systems will go with 12 batteries, not 8.

Whether Grid-Tie or Off-Grid, with backed up loads, you run a subpanel that is segregated, with loads that are appropriate to the green charge capacity. Thus when there is NO GRID, like a black-out, you have a segregated system running your most critical needs. This not just a circuit, it's a complete system in itself.

If you have a larger system truly capable of running the whole house, designed to do that, I would be configuring it as a grid-tie. Unless you have no grid at all. Since our grid tied system can do all the emergency backup power also, I configure all the larger systems as grid-tie. If you have a big system, what if you go out of town? Might as well have that meter running backwards while you are out of town banking some $ for the power it's making.
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WeThePeople
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:18 pm
Location: NE Texas

green circuit questions

Postby WeThePeople » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:26 pm

OK, that helps. Now, given that I bought a WS 850W, what are the steps that you would go thru to determine how much energy is being consumed on each circuit in the house (on a consistent basis), and therefore which circuits you would move to a new green circuit? Put another way, how do you determine which circuit loads would more closely match the output capacity of the green system?

I noticed an "Electricity Usage Monitor" listed for sale. What is that, and is that a critical tool you would use in determining your green circuit strategy?

I have the batteries, and will receive the cabinet I purchased on Monday. I don't want to waste ANY time figuring out the steps required for determining the optimum configuration with the minimum rewiring cost. I also want to know because I intend to build a very large business as a dealer, and I need to know what I am talking about in short order. I'm starting with no background or knowledge of electrical circuits, but with lots of enthusiasm for the potential that this technology represents for our country and my families income! I appreciate your help, and look forward to helping you out also by building YOUR business!


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