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This is the place for all Off-Grid wind turbine issues and discussions. Customers meet each other, dealers and installers help out with questions.
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Rooftop Wind Turbine
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How Tight Should Rotor be Bolted to Turbine Shaft

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

>> Also, when tightening the bolt on the turbine, how tight should that
>> be? Does that have any relation to ability for the turbine to spin?

Just snug it up so that the lock washer compresses down and you know it's tight. Because of the way it tapers on the shaft and how hard it will be to get off, don't tighten too hard. That sucker fits on in way that it is VERY hard to ever remove it. So, you don't have to worry about getting it very tight.

This rotor will be hard to ever get off and I would recommend 2 things. Wipe a drop of oil around just to keep it from seizing up, not much, just a drop. Also, don't attach rotor till last step. Turbine should be fully ready to run before rotor goes on last thing. See picture below. This turbine all ready, battery bank operational, inverter fully functioning, THEN the rotor goes on LAST.

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Anyone wanting a small wind turbine, fill out the contact form and I can connect you with the dealer for your area. There are still areas open in most states for new dealers but many counties and a few entire states are taken up and several people are saying they are going to get their territory. So, if you are interested in becoming a dealer fill out the same form and we can see if your area may still be open.

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Side Pole Mount vs. Roof Mount of Solar Panels

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

>> The battery bank and cabinet have been in place and are ready
>> to go. If I knew for sure what size pole would work with the
>> mounts you provide, I would also have the pole in place.

Hi Joe,

The Z Clips are the standard hardware for roof mounting. I will build you a pole mount and support that if you want because that (WAS) an option at the time of your purchase, but that will not be standard going forward. By percentage, after selling so many units. There are about 1 in 10 that prefer pole mount and most just do not want a pole around. They are foregoing yield for simplicity and aesthetics. I am reacting to what the people want because it's better for me and the installer as well to put on the roof.

In fact I have had several calls where they have seen pictures of the pole mount, think that is only way we do it. I have had customers state that they would want one if it did not have to have that pole in the yard. So, most see that as not attractive. I started out with roof mount panels and Z Clips and was successful. I had changed to pole mount for yield of solar. But the customers are clearly telling me that's not what is preferred. So, I am standardizing to the desire of the customers. After all, that's my specialty, rooftop mounted systems that are easy, cheap, and not obtrusive to the landscape.

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If you have a south facing roof, I would recommend doing the Z Clip straight to the roof. If you need a pole mount, I will build you one but it won't be real quick. It also may lead customers to do the more costly and difficult pole mount.

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I have decided that my new panels are going to the roof also here. It's going to save me a ditch, pole, wiring, and I will have less obstructions in my yard. I think I'm going for roof mounts here at my new system I am building here at the house now.

Anyone wanting a small wind turbine, fill out the contact form and I can connect you with the dealer for your area. There are still areas open in most states for new dealers but many counties and a few entire states are taken up and several people are saying they are going to get their territory. So, if you are interested in becoming a dealer fill out the same form and we can see if your area may still be open.

Oklahoma Install, One Turbine Wind Only Rooftop Wind Turbine
Small Wind Turbine Kit, Installed in Oklahoma
Rooftop Wind Turbine Kit Install, Indiana
Pictures: Twin Turbine Rooftop Wind Turbines
Pictures: One Turbine Wind/Solar Hybrid With Tower
Pictures: One Turbine Wind Only Rooftop System

.

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Indiana Home Wind Turbine, Roof Wind Generator Pictures

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

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Oklahoma Small Wind Turbine, Demo Trailer

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

Sorry I am so pressed for time that I can't put more commentary about this rig. But this dealer is making huge innovation to step out and make this trailer mounted, GRID-TIE demo unit. Initially he was making it to do the 4th of July Parade. The first stab at it missed the height restrictions...

So, this you are looking at is a more low profile trailer. I will probably be helping with some graphics to inprove the look of the branding and such at some point. I had a trailer demo in build at one point and had to abort. At some point I will be working on that again.

With some 40 Amp heavy generator cords, you could actually use this rig at home between fairs, shows, and parades. One thing is for sure, anywhere you park this it will draw a crowd.

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Here you can see his controller and the Grid-Tie Inverter, he's going to put his batteries on the deck here next to the Grid-Tie inverter.

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Here the dealer had to come up with an apparatus to keep the turbine blade secured and not allow it to spin or get damaged by turbulence while being hauled around.

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Anyone wanting a small wind turbine, fill out the contact form and I can connect you with the dealer for your area. There are still areas open in most states for new dealers but many counties and a few entire states are taken up and several people are saying they are going to get their territory. So, if you are interested in becoming a dealer fill out the same form and we can see if your area may still be open.

Oklahoma Install, One Turbine Wind Only Rooftop Wind Turbine
Small Wind Turbine Kit, Installed in Oklahoma
Rooftop Wind Turbine Kit Install, Indiana
Pictures: Twin Turbine Rooftop Wind Turbines
Pictures: One Turbine Wind/Solar Hybrid With Tower
Pictures: One Turbine Wind Only Rooftop System

.

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Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

Sam, the panels are just below the legs. I made sure they were below the legs, the box on the roof rail is plastic sealed with O ring and easy to drill for romax connectors especially if you add the panels. We ran 5 #8 wires up to the rail box, 3 green, 1 red and 1 black. Worked grean because I got the turbine up before I got the panels. Also my installer liked to use SS # 12 wood screws instead of leg screws because the screws have more threads then legs, just a personal choice.

Rex

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Solar Panel Mounts to Roof

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

The use of #12 wood screws is probably fine but taes it off the support of the engineering and warranty. So, I would not advise that going forward. The system is designed, tested, and calculated for wind loads with these lags specifically.

I am unclear as to whether you are talking about using #12 wood screws for solar panel mounts or turbine mounts. One would be more important than the other. Maybe I am the one off subject? Anyway all the documentation in development will be using 1/4 galvanized lags with a pre-drilled hole. That will be for both turbine mounts and panel mounts.

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Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

Sam this guy is after my heart, I mentioned this to you early this spring but haven't had time to think about it.

Great idea

Rex

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Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

Sam, I was refering to the solar panels using #12 wood screws.

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Difference in Ah (amp hours) and CCA (cold cranking amps)

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

>> An 12 volt car battery with 675 amp hours should give
>> 1 amp for several hours and I got 8 4 in series twice
>> and two series sets in parrelle. I'm lost for answers
>> with hardly no draw wind & sun all day and I'm
>> loosing ground.

No, there is no car battery that will have 675 amp hours. That would be a gigantic battery, size of a wheelbarrow. A typical car battery might have 120 to 150 AH or less?

675, That is Cold Cranking Amps, that won't last long at full output. Totally different than Amp Hours. Very rare that a car battery even lists Amp Hours Ah. This question is confusing Ah (amp hours) and Cold Cranking Amps.

AH (amp-hour) = unit of measurement which quantifies the amount of current flow for an amount of time. For example, a current of 1 amp drawn from a battery for 10 hours would consume 10 Amp-hrs of charge from the battery. Fundamentally, a measurement of electrical charge.

CCA (cold cranking amperes) = the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (-18 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery). It is a more demanding test than those at higher temperatures.

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How to Tell if My Wind Resource is Good for Turbine?

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

>> I am a electrical contractor looking to start a dealership in my
>> county. Business has been slow and I am looking to have a
>> good ice breaker to call all my customers about. The Wind/Solar
>> looks like a good fit and no-one is doing that here. I get most
>> of your posts I have been reading, great info here to learn. The
>> part that gets me is not electrical stuff... It's the wind stuff.

>> Can you explain how I can check if my wind resources will be
>> good enough for a system like this. How do I know if we have
>> enough wind here? Thanks, John, JMC Electrical Contractors

Hello John,

Yes, I have many electricians, electrical contractors, and even electrical supply houses that are becoming dealers now. Let me know if you want to speak with one about getting into this business.

I used to not recommend that you install in a wind zone of less than 2. Wind Maps from the US Dept. of Energy are broken down into zones. This is our dirst source of reference geographically. So, I would say that you should want a zone 2 or higher of wind. Starting with zone 2 like I have here in Ohio, I call it "serviceable" and it's worth getting a system. The higher the zone, the better it will perform. But even in a zone 1 it is worth doing and the systems will pay for themselves. It's just the less wind, of course the longer it takes to pay off a system. Also, anything 3 or higher will do very, very, well.

We sell a weather monitor that is wireless, has software for computer data tracking, it's $159 for Wireless Weather Monitor. Other than that, there are wind maps you can see at our site. Go here: http://windenergy7.com/turbines/ Click on link at right, says Wind Maps. We usually use the DOE maps from US Dept. of Energy. These maps are based on decades of data collection and provide a general measurement to make decisions and estimates by.

Since we specialize in Wind/Solar Hybrid systems, you would balance the expansion of systems more toward solar if you have a weak wind resource. These systems, you start out with a turbine and 2 solar panels. Then, you add from there usually. If you find your wind resources to be light, you would add more onto solar than wind. But still, I would never recommend a solar only, or wind only system. Wind or Solar alone is not a consisent system, together, they do very well. It's a very natural fit and is one reason our systems are so much better than other green energy systems. Hope that answered your question.

So, recently our solar system components are getting so efficient that in a low wind area, we do go ahead and install systems. What we do though is shift the ratio of wind to solar more toward solar as the system is scaled up. So, a whole house system in a low wind zone has more panels and less turbines than it would be designed in a high wind area. You play to the strength of the site in terms of ration of wind to solar power in a system. No matter where you live, the systems will do well, but we do tailor a system to a site's strength.

If you are interested in becoming a dealer, fill out the contact form and I can connect you with an electrician or electrical supply house who's doing this already. There are still areas open for new dealers but county territories and entire states are being established now, a few states completely established. So, if you are interested in becoming a dealer fill out the same form and we can see if your area may still be open.

To read more about the systems and wind/solar hybrid technology, there's lots of good info and links to Home Wind Turbine pictures here.

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Solar Panel Sale, FREE Solar Panel, FREE Monitoring Upgrades

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

Hello,

It's September 13th 2009 I am running another promotion with the Big Panel Sale. I have the Solar panel upgrade promotion going again. So, if you are interesested in buying a system soon, you need to look at this promotion which is about a $700 value. The bigger the system you buy the bigger the value. On a whole house system it's $2100 of extra solar power! On a starter single turbine system it's $700 value. Below here is what the promotion offers.

+ Free Shipping to Lower 48 $300 value!
+ Free Panel Upgrade to 234 watt (standard is 150 watt) $700 value per turbine!
+ Free DELUXE Monitoring Upgrades $ 200 value!
...... Pro Weather Monitor & Software
...... Electrical Usage Monitoring Kits


So, the standard with a wind/solar hybrid kit is for each 700 watt rated windmill, you get 150 watts of solar panels that go with the kit. This is the standard system configuration. While supplies last, I am offering the 234 watt panels, rated at 234 watts, that's an EXTRA 84 WATTS for same price. On an 850 watt wind/solar hybrid kit, that's an extra 10% of capacity! Over the 30 year designed life of these systems that is a lot of extra energy. These panels have regularly tested up to 130 watts each. Most of these panel kits are getting over 240 watt. These panels are very good efficient panels for your home wind turbine kits.

This is while supplies last. I have 10 panels on hand, so that's up to 5 wind/solar hybrid kits to sell with panels and they are gone. Please keep in mind that I sell kits of 1, 2, & 3 wind/solar hybrids and a single sale of a three turbine kit will take most of them. So, if you are wanting to buy a kit, call today and catch this before I run out.

Below a picture of the 234 watt upgraded panels.

THIS IS 234 WATT ( FREE ) UPGRADE SOLAR PANELS,
60% MORE SOLAR FOR SAME PRICE:


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Below a picture of the 150 watt standard kit panels. That gives you an idea how much larger and more powerful these 234 watt panel kits are... at the same price. So, call me today before the panels go. I run this similar promotion regularly and the panels on hand go pretty quick, leaving a few customers that don't respond in time. Thanks for your interest.

[color=yellow]THIS IS STANDARD 150 WATT SOLAR PANELS:[color]

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Twin Turbine Rooftop Wind Turbines, Michigan
Illinois One Turbine Wind/Solar Hybrid With Tower
Oklahoma Install, One Turbine Wind Only Rooftop Wind Turbine
Small Wind Turbine Kit, Installed in Oklahoma
Rooftop Wind Turbine Kit Install, Indiana

Anyone wanting a small wind turbine, fill out the contact form and I can connect you with the dealer for your area. There are still areas open for new dealers but county territories and entire states are being established now, a few states completely established. So, if you are interested in becoming a dealer fill out the same form and we can see if your area may still be open.
.

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Mechanical Interlock on Grid/Green Bypass Circuit

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

>> If inside my home, I have existing circuit #1 wired to outlets
>> in my dining, hall, and frig. Wiring goes from those outlets
>> to panel breaker #1 which is sourced from the grid. If I add
>> switch #1 between those outlets and breaker #1 to switch to
>> a green breaker panel instead of the grid panel, then I can
>> choose whether to run the frig on the grid panel or the green
>> panel. When the system goes live, I can switch ONLY the outlets
>> on circuit #1 (light load, only dining, hall, frig) to the green panel
>> to start with. I get the system stable and see how the load is.

>> If I see I have additional capacity, I can switch existing
>> circuit #2 over to the green panel which might have TV and
>> stereo outlets. If circuits 1 and 2 are almost using the capacity
>> of the green circuit without exceeding it then I might leave it
>> that way, but otherwise may try another combination of circuits.

>> This approach eliminates any need for whole new circuits to run
>> and allows for easy switching of EXISTING circuits to green panel
>> when capacity allows, or back to grid panel if the load on green
>> becomes too great.

>> The new green panel will be installed next to the grid panel. There
>> will be a switch box between the green and grid panels.

What you are trying to do is in the manual on the page showing the grid-tie. That diagram has a bypass like you are showing but done in the best way.

[EXCEPT] you are going to do a multiple circuit bypass rather than what is drawn there. That one is an overall system bypass that can make ALL POWER go grid or green by using bypass switching.

The only reservation I have is that if not done correctly, you can backcharge the inverter and blow it up. So, if you want to do this, Must be a mechanical interlock so that it protects against backloading the inverter and or double powering the circuit.

So, there is a hardware piece that can be put in your green subpanel, it's a steel rocker that ties two breakers together in a way that if one gets switched off, the other is switched on and vice/versa. That's called a mechanical interlock.

I would get atleast 8 spaces so you can expand this panel. Anyway, there would be 2 breakers for each circuit, tied together by this mechanical interlock. The circuit is wired to these two breakers so that the circuit can only get power from one breaker at a time and the two breakers are tied together mechanically where one is on, forces the other off.

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This s a Square D and goes with the QO breakers and panels which are the heavy duty type that Square D sells, that's what I recommend over the lighter duty Homeline products. QO is industrial quality, a few bucks more but heavy duty stuff.

QO2DTI Circuit Breaker: For interlocking the handles of two adjacent circuit breakers so that only one circuit breaker can be ON at a time

For Use With: QO and Q1 circuit breakers. One circuit breaker must be a 2-Pole the other can be 1 or 2-Pole

Yes, to do it like you say will make it possible to add loads and lighten loads at will. For Winter you will be able to add more loads, summer will make it easy to trim some loads off the system. I like what you are doing. Just be sure it's using mechanical interlock for safety reasons.

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Turbines Spinning Backward, Maybe Installed Wrong?

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

>> My turbines are running like a top right now. But it looks like
>> they are spinning backwards, counter clockwise. I was thinking
>> that when set up in garage playing around, they spin clockwise.

>> Could my electricians have put the blades and rotor on backwards?
>> How can I tell?

... Doh! Just kidding. It's fine I am 99% sure. The blades spinning fast sometimes appear to be spinning wrong way. Like watching a wagon wheel, there's a optical illusion that it spinning backwards sometimes.

Turbine has design features to avoid this potential problem. The rotor has a tapered hole, the shaft and is tapered. I am not where I can see one but I think that if you try to put it on backwards the nut will not go on the shaft. I definitely know it would be woddling too because the shaft and rotor would not be snug fitting with that tapered effect running opposite directions.

Additionally the blades have a notch at one corner where they fit onto rotor. That notched corner keeps you from putting it in backwards. Ontop of that, one side of each blade has a little nipple that keeps it from laying down right if you tried to put it on upside down, it would sort of teter on that nipple and you would see it's not laying down and fitting right.

These design features help counter a bad assembly like you are scared of. So, I am quite sure it's not on there backwards. Ontop of all that the WE7 turbines do all turn counter clockwise if you are standing in front of rotor.

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Tuning Wind Turbine Loads for Fall/Winter (Off-Grid)

Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

>> Fall and winter is coming and winds picking up a bit. So, my
>> Off-Grid system will be able to carry more loads as the wind
>> production increases. What am I really looking for in terms
>> of identifying new loads to add throught fall/winter/spring?

Hello, To me it's the most predictable loads that I like to use on the green system, thus the refrigerator. The lighting I usually like the outdoor circuit because it's a set usage that I can predict for load balancing. The less predictable I like to leave on the grid unless it's an emergency lighting need or sometghing for emergency power.

As long as all the green energy gets used, it doesn't matter as much where to goes to me. Except that I want certain lights and appliance on my back-up power for emergency use. Other than that as long as the green power all gets used and none wasted, it's a well tuned system. So, the goals are to me.

(1) Most critical Emergency Loads, Refrigerator, Sump Pump, Emergency Lighting

(2) Most Predictable loads to measure, better for tuning the system loads to actual production.


Your system sounds like it's a rap. You may look at some more stuff to be moved over seasonally? Like Oct through Mar, you may cut over the washing machine or some other load that can be moved in/out seasonally.

Like right now, your off-grid summer load sounds really well balanced to me. As winter winds pick up, you will have more wind production. So, start looking for a predictable load to be added to your off-grid circuit through winter. Might put a monitor on the washing machine or look at some more lighting that's predictable.

I like washing machine because it has a plug. Things with a plug are easy to add another box next to existing and winter/summer can simply plug into other circuit. About Oct to Apr or so, you flip a few things over like that to be sure all that winter production will get used.

Television for most people is pretty predictable because you can put an energy monitor on it and see what actual use is. Plus people's television habits across a week are pretty consistant. So, if you monitor the kwH for a week, you can predict that load pretty well.

Below is a chart that is based on US Dept of Energy statistics. This helps give an overview of what an average house's loads look like.

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If you have our Grid-Tied system, there's no concern for any of this really. With our Off-Grid the energy all gets used and loads are tuned automatically. Anything unused just trickles out into the grid and runs the meter backward.

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Postby Rooftop Wind Turbine » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:45 am

I too am getting interested more and more, but I also have the $ issue. I used 750kw last month at a cost of $.06 per. Total bill with all the taxes is $120 (close enough). Thats pretty average for me, so I'm seeing an annual bill of $1450 or so. Do utilities have to allow for reverse meter running? To me, this is the only way these systems make sense. I have studied and your numbers make sense with what I have found as far as percentage output vs rated. Usually it is less than one third, therefore I would need to install a minimum 2.25kW system to erase all of my usage for most of the time. The cost however is much more than ten years to recover even with the 1/3 government kickback. I am in a zone 3 here in upstae NY. System costs are one part, Installation can kill any chance of making this affordable. Still, the independance factor is so very appealing.


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